victory_road | 55th treasure [text]

I haven't challenged any gyms yet, except ages ago when I played the game? But TMs and taking advantage of secondary types sounds like a solid plan. Maybe also some attack raising and defense reducing moves too?

'All of the above', then? From what I understand half that team has a double weakness to water, which can be exploited with Surf, but my Grass-type moves are far more limited. I'll have to invest in Solar Beam or Energy Ball. Which means Tail Whip won't help much; might have to take out my Ursaring for Fake Tears instead.

...wait, are you battling Brock? I'm like a day out from Pewter City.

I am indeed. Did you face him recently? From what I understand his regular team is at around Falkner's level, so he's less of a pain that Viridian's leader.

Not yet. I still haven't gotten all the way through the forest yet, and we'll probably need a couple weeks before we're ready to face him.">

Edited 2018-11-13 02:30 (UTC)

Make sure to use those weeks. I was over-confident for my first attempt in Violet, and we were crushed. That depends on what you pick up in the woods along the way, of course.

I've got Jen and Lorax. They're a Quilladin and a Nuzleaf, so they're definitely going to be able to hold their own. I might order some TMs for my Furret though. Mongo says he can learn some Ice and Fighting moves, so that'll be a big help if things don't go as well as I hope.

Too bad Brock is the one who gives out the Rock Smash HM in Kanto, it'd be most useful against his team. Though I can lend you mine if I'm still around when you arrive and if you find nothing else better. It's definitely not worth an Ice Beam or a Brick Break, but it's something.

What specifically are you looking at with the team you're facing, the team you have, and any TMs/HMs your partners have that aren't part of their natural leveling process?

Brock's Elite Gym team, specializing in Rock-types, all at level 100.
I aim to win using only Normal-types, without restrictions on secondary types. Most lines available at level 100, barring Bewear/Gumshoos/Pikipek.
Have access to Cut/Rock Smash/Strength/Fly/Surf/Whirlpool/Waterfall/Substitute/Double Team/Secret Power, plus a handful of single single-use TMs from Johto's Gym.
Water coverage is plentiful, Grass is terrible, Fighting and Ground is spotty. And a surprisingly high number of Normal-types are also Flying, which is asking to get crushed.

[ this text takes forever to get back to him. annie's a bit into research that night at camp. this is... a long ramble. ]

I know I've seen a list of his Elite Team somewhere... ah, right. On the information network.

Glancing things over, all normal type moves themselves are less effective, though unlike most these pokemon, not something his team is immune to. Regardless, focusing on what secondary types each individual of his team might be weak to, or what attacks will cause higher damage, should help.

Water coverage is in most cases one that benefits you, since most his team is weak to water. Some that aren't as weak to water are weak to grass, even if you say that coverage is terrible on your end of things. Flying's relatively useless here; I wouldn't bother bringing in someone dual typed with flying. All their attacks are going to be less impactful overall, and it's likely they'll be weak to attacks from his team.

Of those not weak to water, I think that's... hold on, I have to look into this. Kabutops and Omastar? Rampardos takes more damage to water and grass, but not as much damage as every other team member takes to grass (or water, if we look at everyone but Kabutops and Omastar). Taking in those capable of using water attacks that are even more effective because of their secondary typing should help cut into the strength of his team, but it is what it is.

Diggersby has the benefit of resisting rock damage, just like Bewear, but you said Bewear isn't at 100, so I don't know about its endurance or ability to stand up to those with greater capacity to take damage. They could be a good matchup against Rampardos, with their leveling moves and capacity to learn surf, which might take Brock by surprise.

Bibarel isn't weak to any of the damages Brock's team can dish out without additional training, and takes reduced damage to several of his secondary types. They can also learn and use both Surf and Waterfall, to greater efficiency.

Deerling or Sawsbuck are both resistant to ground and water, which are the secondary types for Brock's team, but with you saying your grass coverage is poor, I don't know if you have either one of them. They do take normal damage from rock types, but you can help manage that with berries, potions, or status or special moves from other team members.

Looking at normal types capable of learning your water HMs, there's tauros, likitung, kangaskhan, snorlax, sentret and furret, miltank, zigzagoon, linoone, exploud, lickilicky, stoutland, bouffalant, furfrou, and then some electric-normal types which might be effective against the two rock-water pokemon on his team.

What range of damage reducing or attack increasing moves do your pokemon have? If you look at those, you might have an idea of how to bolster them to endure an attack, or strike harder than they would usually.

[That is a long and impressive ramble. Ash has read many less detailed missions reports. Asemu had written many less detailed missions reports.]

It's kinda funny how he had to revive long-dead fossils to reduce his team's general weakness to water, and equally funny how many non-aquatic species can surf the waves. Surf hits like a truck, too, which is always nice. I'll have to check if Bibarel's secondary type is enough to compensate for his generally low stats, but at least on that side I already have multiple potential team members. Some of them even have decent stats, at the low cost of having no specific strengths. But that's why I like them.

My poor Bewear stands absolutely no chance, the level difference is too great. Diggersby shows some promise moveset-wise, not so much stats-wise. Still, Swords Dance and Leer can go a long way, if I can buy enough time for her to use them. Or Baton Pass similar boosts along, but I wasn't planning on a long setup this time. Especially not using Pokémon that have nothing else to offer to this fight.

I do have a Sawsbuck, but she's my only real option for Grass-type moves since the Togepi and Cleffa lines lost their Normal-type. Her offensive capacities would be greatly augmented if I could get her a Sunny Day TM to make her Solar Beam much more efficient. If my Heliolisk can sneak in a Thunder Wave first that's even better, but if it misses or we're unlucky with paralysis she won't last long enough to use Thunderbolt. Then again, if Thunder Wave does initially stick I'll have plenty of time to use a revive if necessary, so between the two of them they should be able to take down both fossils.

As it turns out, most of those moves are special rather than physical. Not ideal for the average Normal-type, but we'll deal. This does mean that my only option to reduce the appropriate defense is Ursaring's Fake Tears. Good thing she also has a few Fighting-type moves to pull her weight once that job is done. And as it happens, Tauros and Stoutland can both learn Surf AND raise their special attack, which would give them a leg up on most non-Bibarel options.

I'd be looking at a Diggersby/Sawsbuck/Heliolisk/Ursaring team, with two out of Bibarel/Tauros/Stoutland to finish it up. Looks enough to cover most threats to me.

[ Blessed be the world that never had to read mission reports from Annie. Most her official ones were... similar, if she needed them to be, but more cut and dry as a matter of repeating facts instead of mulling over possibilities. ]

All things said, based on what limitations you're choosing to work within, that makes sense. Between what you're considering as your plan of attack and what you bring in as augments, or have any of them hold, it gives you a decent chance. Things will probably still come as a surprise, but you'd have your own to play bringing in those final members in particular.

[The day someone manages to make surfing dogs sound cut and dry is the day Ash gives up on his sanity.]

Even a battle with self-imposed restrictions wouldn't be interesting if there were no surprises involved. Still, I'd rather have a decent chance from the start, rather than spend three weeks losing to refine my strategy.
Thank you very much for your help with the brainstorming. It's greatly appreciated.

[ But what if surfboards are involved... ]

Ah, you're welcome. Fight well with your team.

[The dog would be dry, sure, but hopefully there would be no cuts involved.]

I certainly will. Brock won't know what hit him.

I suspect that'll suit him just fine. Most the Gym Leaders seem to appreciate being caught off guard with a good battle.

I can't imagine why someone who doesn't enjoy a good battle would even want to be a Gym leader in the first place. It'd be like doing a job you hate just because it has a fancy title.

But if you love the fancy title and the regard it brings you, you might do the job anyway. People are motivated by all manner of stupid things in the eyes of others.

True. If people can be motivated by money or hatred, being recognized as someone who trains really strong rocks or plants isn't too outlandish. Hell, maybe they even get particularly fancy swag that's worth dealing with new trainers and their five Rattatas

I'll take those kinds of wishes for recognition over most the ones I've seen elsewhere. And it's possible. Might be something to ask the handful of people who have license to set up a gym here, or the ones who already have set up their gym.

I've spoken with a few of them before, maybe they'll be willing to share info. The higher ups around here can be secretive, but unless they've signed NDAs it hopefully shouldn't apply to people like us.

NDAs?

Non Disclosure Agreements. Basically, some jobs make you sign papers saying you won't reveal what kind of work you do, or what your office is like, to anyone outside the company. If you break the agreement, they can sue or blacklist you. Or maybe lose the right to have a Gym, in this case.

Ah, I see. I don't imagine that's in place here, but it's certainly possible... though as you say, less likely for offworlders.

It'd be such a pain to enforce, too. If someone disappears and returns a few months later with their memories intact, is it even still valid?

Not to mention, how would you verify all their memories are intact? No, things like that seem impractical here.

There's always the option of asking a Psychic-type to check, but they'd have to meet with the person, train a suitable species for it... Even the most practical option isn't at all.

So in the end, the whole thing would be highly impractical. By that alone, it's equally unlikely.

Hmmmmm.
I would say studying up on secondary typings through the use of TMs or moves your Pokemon already have would be your best bet.
A good stock of healing items wouldn't be remiss either, but I feel like...if you have a Pokemon who knows a couple of super-effective moves, trains in their use for a little bit...it can always be a surprise to an opponent who wasn't expecting it.
Like, for example, I would love to teach Dinah some of those elemental punching moves, like Ice Punch? Because a Dragon type isn't going to expect this little Audino to be able to sock it in the face with a frozen fist.
But that's just me. I haven't even gotten to face an Elite team yet, so maybe my advise isn't very sound...

Edited (whoops no header) 2018-11-12 13:33 (UTC)

This is my first Elite team and I haven't fought a Gym in years, so any tip is useful. Thankfully, I have enough healing items to open my own Pokémon. Less thankfully, if his Pokémon's secondary types resist Water my offensive options drop drastically. But if I could teach Sunny Day to my Sawsbuck, I guess Solar Beam would become a decent option?

Most definitely! Even I know that combination - you get a few turns of Solarbeams without the wait! Now that can be a heck of a barrage. I say try for that.

That means Water and Grass are covered, leaving Fighting, Ground and Steel. I'll have to forget that last one, though; my Normal-types and metallic options are sadly exclusive.

None of them know Flamethrower or anything?
I think Sunny Day also powers up Fire type moves.

One or two know Fire Fang, maybe. I haven't really purchases TMs for them, beyond what we received over the years. I mean, I do have Fire-types around, but I'd rather not use them for this.

Fire Fang is also good.

Though, may I ask why you seem to have decided to go mono-type for this Elite run? I'm kind of curious.

They're my favorites, they're greatly underestimated, and I like a challenge. Why would I NOT do it?

Those are fair and excellent reasons to go forward.
Now you're making me wonder if giving it a try might be fun.

The great thing is that you have so many options!
You've somehow managed to catch every fish out there? You get to plan for Surge and Erika. You like Fire-types? Figuring out how to take on Misty should keep you busy for a while.
I kinda regret not doing it for the first part of Johto, but my team wasn't ready back then.

I mean, who would be ready going through the first round of gyms? We're all still finding our feet within the first badge or so. It must make the rest of our time more exciting.

It is nice to see how much your options and strategies have improved over time. And who knows? Maybe someone our there will live out my dream of defeating Falkner with a Pidgey, a Sentret and a Bidoof, one day.

If they do, then let's hope they can catch the entire thing on video for posterity's sake.

If they don't, people will never believe them. And who would do that without bragging even a little about their success?

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