[Text] - Anonymous (Backdated to April 3rd)

[bleedingunversed]

So at what point is it okay to excuse something just because it's not "as bad" as something you might have experienced back in the world you come from?

Bad is bad, isn't it? Evil is evil?

Or are there some things that are okay to turn a blind eye to?

Comments

[anon]

[keep_surviving]

Huh. Never thought of it that way around.

To me, if things are better here, you should hold yourself to higher standard.

People do what they can to survive, right? Circumstances and context can often make some things at least more acceptable, even if not completely 'right'.

But this isn't that kind of place. You're not just trying to live 'till the next day here.

[anon]

[bleedingunversed]

Seems reasonable. Holding yourself to a higher standard.

If it's a matter of survival that's one thing; you do what you have to.

But you're right. This isn't that sort of place.

You'd think more people would get that.

[anon]

[keep_surviving]

I mean, obviously nobodie's perfect. And there's still like, different circumstances for all people.

And I wouldn't expect people to just get over shit right away and start acting all well adjusted. There's like a learning curve to stuff.

But I don't think the whole 'things were worse back home so I can be bad here' really makes sense.

anon 5 ever

[bertall]

I... suppose it depends on what that something is.

And your perspective on the matter. What's bad to some people might be good to others, you know?

[Anoning til the end of time]

[bleedingunversed]

Does the perspective change in a new world though?

Let me phrase that differently.

Should we change our perspective on the matter in a new world?

[bertall]

Then that goes back to the first part, doesn't it? On what that something is.

[anon]

[lionroll]

I think it depends on just what this bad thing is or the context around it?

Like some people believe putting pineapple on pizza is delicious, while others think its an abomination! I wouldn't say either way is bad, but there are definitely people out there who believe pineapple on pizza is a terrible crime against humanity.

[anon]

[bleedingunversed]

[Hunk...you goddamn cinnamon roll.]

So context means everything.

What about in the case of hurting people or lying to them? Is that universal?

[anon]

[lionroll]

Now that!!

I believe that is definitely universal, but that too also has variables. You can hurt someone by lying to them... Yet you can also lie to someone to NOT hurt them ya know?

[Anon] [Because Gaige is the best moral compass.]

[2hellwiththe1stlaw]

Shades of grey dude.

Like, OK sure. Murder is bad. But if someone is trying to murder you first and you murder them back and win then it's not as bad right?

Same result, different amount of guilt.

[Anon]

[bleedingunversed]

Shades of grey?

Re: [Anon]

[2hellwiththe1stlaw]

Yeah dude. The world isn't all about right or wrong. Black or white. It's not that easy.

So instead of being strictly black or white you gotta think of it as shades of grey. Get it?

Anon party up in this biz

[11121_assumption]

There is no such thing as a blind eye. If you know someone is suffering, and choose not to act, you are setting a standard. You are saying that what is happening is normal. Or, it is not something that matters.

Bad is bad. Evil is evil. Pain is still pain, even if it is a different or lesser pain than what was experienced or inflicted by us in our worlds.

[bleedingunversed]

So there are no exceptions?

[11121_assumption]

No.

There are reasons for the pain we cause. Those reasons might justify it to ourselves, but we cannot pretend that we are not causing pain. I know and accept that I have caused others much suffering, equal to what was inflicted upon me. So the people I have hurt, are right to show the rage I had felt towards my tormentors, towards me.

[islandshore]

Here's the thing.

Good and bad are kinda subjective. Obviously, there are some things everyone's gonna generally agree are bad- like murder.

But I'd say it really depends on what that "bad" thing really is. How many people it affects. How it affects them. Because there's a difference between someone being a nuisance and being hostile, for one.

I'd look at is as kind of a sliding scale, I guess.

[Anon] - for now

[bleedingunversed]

Someone else mentioned shades of grey.

Is that what you mean by a sliding scale?

[islandshore]

More or less.

But even those shades of grey would vary from person to person. Someone might see theft as one of the greatest evils, while others might view it as a way to survive and get back at "the system" or something. Depends on what's being stolen, too.

[Text - not going to bother with Anon; Armin stands behind his words]

[schachmeister]

I don't really believe things are as black and white.

I think it is easy for people to believe in good and evil as two immutable positions. After all, it's easier to live your life and justify your own actions if you believe certain actions are always good and certain actions are always bad. But in reality, I feel that when people speak of good and evil, what they really mean is 'someone who is good to me' and 'someone who is evil to me'.

For example, I think most people would consider killing evil. It is ending a life, after all. But I know of a boy who killed two men to save a girl. Was he evil to kill? I don't believe so. These men were murderers and kidnappers. They had already killed the girl's parents. If he had not killed them, the girl would most certainly have been sold into slavery. To me, his actions were good and admirable, even if he did end two lives.

Sometimes actions that are seen as bad by nearly everyone can lead to an overall better outcome than taking good actions. In that case, can it truly be called good to prioritise your own morality over the lives of other people?

[Anon] - for now; GO ARMIN GO

[bleedingunversed]

So it's not a standard. There can be different opinions. Different definitions.

What if only some people believe that though? You're still going to get labeled. You're still going to get judged for your actions based on someone else's perceived code aren't you?

People seem to love dishing out judgement.

[Text]

[schachmeister]

That is what I believe, yes.

I don't think there will ever be a belief that is shared among everybody in a society. Even if it is just a small group, there will always be some who think differently. And where there will be differences in opinion, there will be judgement. Not that judgement itself is negative, mind you. Even thinking someone is a good person is only a personal judgement that doesn't need to be an objective truth. If I am hungry and someone steals food for me, I will judge that person to be a good person. But the shopkeeper we stole from might judge us both to be bad people regardless of our reasons. And both of those judgements might be true. If the food that was stolen was the shopkeeper's last and now his children will go hungry, it can easily be understood why someone would view the thief as a bad person. But at the same time, if the food that was stolen will keep someone from starving, it is also easy to understand why the person who eats will view that person as good.

I think that is something that you need to accept though. And I think... thinking about what other people might think of you or how they will judge you can keep you from doing what needs to be done. Some things are more important than your personal reputation.

When I was young, I was often beaten up for certain things I said. Ideas I had. I could've been quiet about them. Perhaps If I had been, they would've stopped picking on me. But to me, those things were more important than a bloody nose. I thought, maybe if I keep saying these things, even if I am judged for them, I'll actually make them acknowledge the things I am saying.

It didn't exactly work, but I would do it again if I had to.

But I don't think everybody has to agree with my way of thinking either. This is the way I think I should live, but everybody else has their own ways. And there isn't necessarily a right person.

not anon because AIN'T SCARE OF NO THINGS

[heartandsoul]

Sometimes you never actually get a choice in whether you're "good" or "bad." Sometimes you're raised by someone who teaches you to hurt people and that's all you ever know.

Sometimes "good" people do awful things and don't get held accountable for it. Sometimes people *think* they're doing good.

Can you give an example of what you're thinking of, personally?

Anon CAUSE HE'S LEARNING RIGHT NOW

[bleedingunversed]

[Wow that..hits really close to home.

His response takes a few minutes to come as he thinks about how he wants to go about this.]

Someone was made to be a weapon. Brought into existence solely for the purpose of helping their master take over the worlds. All they knew were the darkest emotions that a heart can feel. All they knew was fighting and tormenting. Causing pain and making others hurt. They didn't know anything else until years later when they were given a chance to be a complete person.

Does that make them a bad person?

[rediscover]

i think it's hard and not always the right thing to do...to put things in such a black and white way...

especially because this place might have different ideas about what's bad or what's good. that doesn't mean it's necessarily wrong! there are definitely different moral values and standards back home in Arendelle that people don't hold each other here to, and that's not a bad thing, if you ask me! just...different.

[bleedingunversed]

Are we suppose to change our views and values based on this place since we're all here now, though?

Or do we keep living by our individual standards from home?